Indian Larry

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Posts by Indian Larry

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  5

  Are Jehovah's Witnesses the only ones that will survive Armageddon?

  by God_Delusion in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi guys & gals,.

  i keep getting asked if jw's are the only ones that will survive armagenocide.. here's my response those emails - http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/armageddon/jehovahs-witnesses-are-the-only-ones-that-will-be-saved/.

  jaymes .

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  Indian Larry
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  30

  Crisis of Conscience, Apostacy and the Antichrist

  by konceptual99 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've just finished reading coc and it's truely a thought provoking book that's given me much to think about.. one thing that has struck me is the way rf was disfellowshipped and how he tried to reason with the elders on the jc.

  a key point of reasoning was that how the elders could define the disassocated one he ate with as "the antichrist" or one practicing the things described in 1 cor 9. apparently the elders either remain silent on the matter or said it was not for them to judge.. i thought the reasoning was really sound but i have been doing some checking on the definition of apostacy and the antichrist according to the society and it seems pretty clear to me that anyone guilt of apostacy becomes part of the antichrist.

  characteristics of apostacy as defined in the it-1 book are described as follows:.

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  Indian Larry

  Konceptual99 for what it is worth, my thought is that the antichrist is a person or group that denys Jesus Christ. By that definition neither Peter Gregory (who R.Franze had dinner with) or Ray Franz would be considered anti-Christ. It is quite the opposite as a matter of fact. It is because Ray was actually concerned with following Christ's teachings that he ended up in trouble.

  Look at some of the definitions you gave for anti-christ and think about how they might apply to the organization:

  the heeding of the “counterfeit words” of false teachers and “misleading inspired utterances”

  Who is more the false teacher? The organization teaches many things that are certainly not true. For example that Jerusalem fell in 607BCE, that is not true. That they fortold that Jesus would return in 1914, they did not fortell that. That they are God's sole channel of communication to all of mankind, what do you think? That only Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved at armageddon. The bible clearly says that we are not to judge. Period. That privelege belongs to Christ alone. How dare they be so presumptous as to say that. They also teach that only baptized witnesses have the "unrestricted" privelege of prayer. Again, it is Jehovah that hears prayer and it is up to him (not 7 imperfect men in Brooklyn NY) to decide who's prayers he hears. That is a pretty big claim to make, that you have to be baptised and follow the FDS (which in reality means follow the 7 men in Brooklyn) to have unrestricted privelege of prayer.

  Apostates often seek to make others their followers.

  Did Ray Franz seek to make others his followers? No. If you read his other book In Search of Christian Freedom you will see this clearly. He did not in any way shape or form try to start his own religion or even his own church. Neither did he join any other church organization. Jehovah does not need a "earthly organization" that is simply a fallacy that the society has repeated so many times that is sounds like the truth. The head of God's organization today is Jesus Christ. That is all. I know that is probably hard to understand, and frankly it will take a while to wrap your head around it.

  Are there true apostates as defined by the bible? Yes, there are. According to the scriptures an apostate would be a person who denies Jesus Christ. There are apostates that post here on this board (a lot of them) that does not mean that every XJW is an apostate. In my personal opinion it does not even mean that someone that the bible defines as apostate is nessesarily a bad person. For many XJW's the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society ruined all religion for them period. It is certainly understandable that this happens.

  For most JW's the organization and God are so intertwined that when you realize the organization is not true and you have been lied to (in my case) your whole life, the most natural course is to turn away not only from the org but from God as well. I did that myself for awhile, then I realized that just because imperfect men are wrong does not nessessarily mean that God does not exist.

  For me the main thing that brought me back to the scriptures was a empty feeling in my soul. However I do not want to believe just because I want to believe. I looked at other religions, even Buddism but to me Christianity is the only one that has the feel of truth to it. Then I read In Search of Christian Freedom. It is an excellent book, in my opinion much much better than Crisis of Conscience. It helped me more to see what is really the good news of Christ Jesus.

  As far as your family. My reccomendation is do not say anything, do not bring up any questions, steer clear of the elders. Look up previous threads on this site on how to successfully fade. Realize that you were/are part of a high control group, some would say mind control group and to a certain extent I believe that is true. Once you start to see the truth you will want to tell everyone, but remember they are still under the "spell" of the organization and they will look at you as an apostate for even hinting that the Governing Body can make a mistake.

  You might approach it as though you are stumbled. Tell your wife that you have learned some things that bother you and you need to work it out in your own head. Tell her about the Candice Conti case, about the org joining the United Nations, tell here about Malawi and Mexico. But do it in a very very very very very slow manner. Drop out one small hint and leave it alone for a week or two. DO NOT OVERLOAD her or she will in all likelyhood come close to a mental breakdown. If you let out a little at a time and NEVER tell her what to think, don't try to stop her from going to the hall. Just ask questions.

  Remember this, a question mark is a little hook. Use questions to get her to think for herself. Rather than accuse the organization of covering up pedophiles you might try something like this: " Honey, I stumbled across the transcripts of this case about an elder who was abusing young boys, he started before he was even a ministerial servant and abused young boys for years. How or why would the holy spirit appoint him as an elder if he was abusing young boys? Do you think Jehovah did that for a reason dear?"

  Also if you have children you need to talk with her about the blood issue. Ask her what fractions that she feels should be allowed. Then ask something like "Why are we allowed to take someone elses blood that has been collected and stored but we can use our own?" or "Honey, I just don't understand the societies stand on the blood can you explain to me what scripture says which fractions are okay?"

  Another tact would be to ask her to explain why the generation of 1914 is now overlapping. Most witnesses really don't understand this. They have a reflex to basically bury their head in the sand and put thier faith in the GB. That is wrong, but that is the way it is. By asking the right questions, you will get her to think. If you are missing meetings tell her if she can explain to you using the bible for instance why the generations "overlap" you will go for two weeks. Or tell her if she can make sense out of the blood issue you will go for a month. List out five questions on each topic and tell her if she can answer them you will keep attending. She won't want to look up the answers because in her heart she knows what she finds will prove her whole worldview to be wrong. It is scary. Don't lose your wife and family over these questions. Move slowely and others will let you out but do not cause confrontations, it is just not worth it. Never ever say you don't believe in the FDS. If that comes up just say you don't UNDERSTAND how Jehovah could appoint them and then they join the UN, or advocate blood use,(I personally have no problem with blood use) or protect pedophiles, etc.

  Use sites that look up JW News and start a folder collecting news articles DIRECTLY from the source. She will probably be much more open to viewing info from newspapers or tv then from a site like this.

  Anyway, whatever you do remember that the GB is not God and they do not represent him. You don't have to give up on your spirituality just because people who say they are spiritual are liers. I reccomend listening to podcasts by some Christian Apologists to strenghten your faith if you want to. I personally like Ravi Zaccharius, William Lane Craig and others along that line as they are not preachy but do build me up.

  Good luck. : )
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  50

  Conti Trial Transcripts and Court Documents of Attorney Zalkin's cases of 5 victims WT settled out-of-court, San Diego, all available to download using MediaFire

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the conti trial transcripts have been uploaded using mediafire.. .

  conti trial transcript: http://www.mediafire.com/?oj940x48xuuaa.

  the public domain court documents for the 5 victims wt settled out-of-court case in may-june 2012, attorney irwin zalkin, san diego, calif., have been uploaded using mediafire:.

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  Indian Larry

  Downloaded. Thank you very very much. Going to read them now.
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  76

  WT recently settled out-of-court with 5 victims of JW serial molester. Court documents now available to post on any website

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  on may 20, 2010, a lawsuit was filed in san diego, california.

  defendant, the watchtower of ny, settled out-of-court for an unknown amount of money with the plaintiffs just weeks before the candace conti trial began at the end of may 2012 in oakland, california.

  the law firm representing the five plaintifs in this case was .

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  Indian Larry

  Anxiously waiting for link. : )
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  3

  Ex 7:1 ponderings

  by leaving_quietly in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if god could make moses god (capital g, hebrew elohim) to pharoah, what prevents him from making jesus god to all humans?.

  my point is: the concept of the father is god and the son is god is not a big stretch in light of ex 7:1, when god made moses god to one human.

  jesus, being greater than moses, could easily be made god to all humans, and it would seem to fit the scriptures better, especially when considering john 14:28 and 1 cor 15:26,27, and, dare i say, john 1:1 as understood by most people.

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  Indian Larry

  Leaving Quietly, that is a good point. Thanks for sharing it.
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  76

  WT recently settled out-of-court with 5 victims of JW serial molester. Court documents now available to post on any website

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  on may 20, 2010, a lawsuit was filed in san diego, california.

  defendant, the watchtower of ny, settled out-of-court for an unknown amount of money with the plaintiffs just weeks before the candace conti trial began at the end of may 2012 in oakland, california.

  the law firm representing the five plaintifs in this case was .

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  Indian Larry

  Thanks in advance for posting these documents. I am looking forward to reading them first thing in the morning (hint hint) : )
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  56

  The best tactic Anonymous could use against the Society is to make them look noble and humble

  by JonathanH in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i was thinking about what would be the most damaging thing anonymous could do on an organizational level by hacking the society.

  one poster suggested that they should send out e-mails to all the elders in their elder database pretending to be the society.

  but rather than sending out anything wierd and defaming, they should go the opposite route and do what the society would never do but should.

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  Indian Larry

  I think that is an excellent idea.
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  22

  Is this valid reasoning for Trinitarian Doctrine?

  by Flat_Accent in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i had been watching jwfairytale's videos recently, and he's been including snippets of this short film about a guy that becomes a jw and then changes to a born again, or so i think.

  you can watch it here.

  it's very dated, but quite enjoyable:.

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  Indian Larry

  What about Isa. 45:6?
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  28

  Motorcylces

  by harleybear in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  okay i thought it would be fun to find out who of you all ride bikes and i don't mean bicycles.

  we have 2 harley road kings.

  what do you ride??

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  Indian Larry

  Suzuki VStrom 1000
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  37

  Are you TRAPPED by your believing mate into a hellish life of "pretend"?

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the scene is familiar.. a jehovah's witness family with one member who has awakened from the lie.. the split comes down to an interesting wrong terminology:.

  unbelieving mate vs believing mate.. .

  the context of the entire family is as a jehovah's witness family.. damage has already been done.

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  Indian Larry

  Terry, I enjoyed your post. Especially this part:

  'You don't have to be sucked into challenges for LOYALTY STATEMENTS. Refuse to positioned that way.

  "Do you believe that Jehovah's Organization is guided by His Faithful and Discreet slave, or not?"

  "I'm sorry but it offends me to have to pledge allegience in this way TO YOU. Jehovah is well aware of what I believe in my heart."'

  Well phrased